No, I can't agree with that. Christian believers have been suffering and dieing since Jesus' death. Regardless if they are going to live in heaven after death, they still have to suffer violence, injustice, disease, misery, deep emotional pain, so on and so forth. Jesus said that those who believe will NEVER have to die AT ALL. also he would eliminate death. If this just means some spiritual sickness and death then that's a pretty sad hope.
Chris Tann
JoinedPosts by Chris Tann
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Chris Tann
Give me just a little more time (lol) I agree with what you are saying about the sign, the tribulation and Revelation. I tend to think that a preterist understanding of the greek scriptures is accurate. Also, designs, I see where you are coming from. Jesus has been ruling since around 70c.e , why has he not eliminated war ,death,violence...etc. However, the scriptures do imply that the Kingdom will gradually take over the earth. But I don't know if that's really the truth or not about the matter.
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Chris Tann
Fact finder, you make valid points for consideration. Unfortunately you have deviated from my theme; identifying the 144,000, not that the Jewish understanding of the Messiah is different from the Christians understanding. Simply put, some from among the Jews were the first believers in Jesus as the fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies in the first century, this group may be the first fruits (144,000) of Revelation.
However, with regard to the listing of the tribes are different ,pro logos, than that of the Hebrew scriptures, there may be an answer to that. There are good websites to check out explaining that some tribes were rejected for unfaithfulness and replaced by others. Symbolic or not, the description of the 144,000 in verse seven is very Jewish in identification in comparison with the great crowd who are from the nation's; which I may suggest as many have, are simply those of the nations accepting the good news. They have the same hope and destination as the 144,000.
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2014 AGM announcement rumour
by yadda yadda 2 infrom barbara anderson, former watchtower headquarters researcher and writer, on another recent thread:.
it is expected that at the 2014 annual meeting, usually held the first saturday in october, will serve watchtower leaders well to cover-up all the 100-years of prophetic nonsense.
rumor has it they are going to celebrate their 100-years of announcing the kingdom in an adroit way by featuring a move of "great" significance to do with the expansion of the governing body to an "apostolic" 12 or some other fantasy idea.. .
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Chris Tann
Hmm... so do you know what the original source is?
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Chris Tann
I understand. I guess my label " Jewish Christian" is not accurate. I was referring to Jews, such as the apostles, who accepted Jesus. In the very early stages these Jews still practiced much of Judaism while believing in Jesus sacrifice. It was individuals such as Paul and Peter who started to reason that these first believers did not HAVE to continue practicing certain Jewish commands under the law( ie. Circumcision, sacrifices ). This, they claimed they received from the spirit and reasoning on the Hebrew scriptures ( the book of Hebrews is a good example).
However, the only point I was trying to make is that it is possible that the first Jews who believed in Jesus were the remnant of Israel that would not be destroyed in the Jewish Roman war of 70c.e.. Thus the labeling of them in Revelation 14 as FIRST FRUITS to God, aka the 144,000. Whether future generations of that first group evolved into a totally different religion than the Jews is irrelevant to my point.
p.s., if God's plan was for the next phase,if you will, of his religion to totally change after the revealing of the Messiah.. so be it.
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7 Reasons Why “Babylon the Great” was Jerusalem
by Tiresias inauthors david chilton (1987) and james stuart russell (1878) propose that the revelation is primarily a prophecy of the destruction of ancient jerusalem by the roman armies.
the revelation is jerusalem's armageddon (mountain of assembled roman troops).
i see the revelation as a war siren warning the first century christians of the imminent destruction of the city.
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Chris Tann
I agree completely with this evaluation Tire. Nice job!
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Chris Tann
Ok. I just don't see it as replacement theology. The Mssiah wad foretold to come, he came, not all Jews believed, those that did became the nucleus of the next phase or continuation of God's plan for Israel and then those of the nation would be grafted in. Not a replacement, but a continuation. Remember, Paul does say that the nation of Israel will not continue blind forever. Just until the fullness of the nation's are brought in, then all Israel( literal Israel) will be saved. But your point is well taken ,thank you.
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December 1,2014 watchtower saying buying house is bad
by hoser inpage 15.
"take for example a christian couple in asia.
in their younger years, they admired those who could afford to own a house.
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Chris Tann
Yes, we know that buying or building a house is not wrong. As Jesus said, it is the " not taking any note" that is dangerous. This couple obviously did not considered the cost and it caused them harm. One can have a house without it being a burden and still be a faithful active Christian. Sure some may wrongfully and self righteously condemn you for buying a house, but they sure don't say anything when they want to have field service meetings in your spacious house every week.
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Chris Tann
I agree that Paul's writings on Christ are different. Sometimes I don't know if he believes in a physical Jesus or spiritual Jesus. Never the less, the points I was making about identifying the 144,000 using what Paul wrote in Romans has nothing to do with his theology of the Messiah. He accurately interprets accounts of a future remnant using the Hebrew writings and applies it to Jewish believers of his time. Whether or not they believe in his theology or not at that instance he does not specify.
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Chris Tann
Jews became followers of Christ Jesus before Paul was converted. Exam: the 120 in the upper room on Pentecost and the many Priest who became believers.